해리스-월즈 CNN인터뷰 전문+fact check (20240829)
READ: Harris and Walz’s exclusive joint interview with CNN
CNN anchor Dana Bash
Vice President Kamala Harris and her running mate Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz sat down exclusively with CNN Thursday for her first interview since ascending to the top of the Democratic ticket. Just days after accepting the nomination at the Democratic National Convention, Harris answered wide-ranging questions from CNN’s Dana Bash, including on her economic and border policies, attacks on her race from former President Donald Trump and the call from President Joe Biden to tell her he was withdrawing from the race. Read the full transcript of the exclusive interview below.
BASH: Madam Vice President, Governor Walz, thank you so much for sitting down with me and bringing the bus. Bus tour is well underway here in Georgia. You have less time to make your case to voters than any candidate in modern American history. The voters are really eager to hear what your plans are. If you are elected, what would you do on day one in the White House?
HARRIS: Well, there are a number of things. I will tell you first and foremost one of my highest priorities is to do what we can to support and strengthen the middle class. When I look at the aspirations, the goals, the ambitions of the American people, I think that people are ready for a new way forward in a way that generations of Americans have been fueled by — by hope and by optimism. I think sadly in the last decade, we have had in the former president someone who has really been pushing an agenda and an environment that is about diminishing the character and the strength of who we are as Americans — really dividing our nation. And I think people are ready to turn the page on that.
BASH: So what would you do day one? / HARRIS: Day one, it’s gonna be about one, implementing my plan for what I call an opportunity economy. I’ve already laid out a number of proposals in that regard, which include what we’re gonna do to bring down the cost of everyday goods, what we’re gonna do to invest in America’s small businesses, what we’re gonna do to invest in families. For example, extending the child tax credit to $6,000 for families for the first year of their child’s life to help them buy a car seat, to help them buy baby clothes, a crib. There’s the work that we’re gonna do that is about investing in the American family around affordable housing, a big issue in our country right now. So there are a number of things on day one.
BASH: What about you? / WALZ: Well, I’m excited about this agenda, too. As I said, the idea of inspiring America to what can be. And I think many of these things that the vice president’s proposing are — are — are things that we share in values. And the child tax credit’s one we know that reduces childhood poverty by a third. We did it in Minnesota. To have a federal partner in this —unbelievable, I think, in the impact that we can make
BASH: You talk about — you call it the opportunity economy. You are well aware that right now many Americans are struggling. There’s a crisis of affordability. One of your campaign themes is, “We’re not going back.” But I wonder what you say to voters who do want to go back when it comes to the economy specifically because their groceries were less expensive, housing was more affordable when Donald Trump was president.
HARRIS: Well, let’s start with the fact that when Joe Biden and I came in office during the height of a pandemic, we saw over 10 million jobs were lost. People — I mean, literally we are all tracking the numbers. Hundreds of people a day were dying because of COVID. The economy had crashed. In large part, all of that because of mismanagement by Donald Trump of that crisis. When we came in, our highest priority was to do what we could to rescue America. And today, we know that we have inflation at under 3%. A lot of our policies have led to the reality that America recovered faster than any wealthy nation around the world. But you are right. Prices in particular for groceries are still too high. The American people know it. I know it. Which is why my agenda includes what we need to do to bring down the price of groceries. For example, dealing with an issue like price gouging. What we need to do to extend the child tax credit to help young families be able to take care of their children in their most formative years. What we need to do to bring down the cost of housing. My proposal includes what would be a tax credit of $25,000 for first-time home buyers so they can just have enough to put a down payment on a home, which is part of the American dream and their aspiration, but do it in a way that allows them to actually get on the path to achieving that goal and that dream.
BASH: So you have been vice president for three and a half years. The steps that you’re talking about now, why haven’t you done them already?
HARRIS: Well, first of all, we had to recover as an economy, and we have done that. I’m very proud of the work that we have done that has brought inflation down to less than 3%, the work that we have done to cap the cost of insulin at $35 a month for seniors. Donald Trump said he was gonna do a number of things, including allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Never happened. We did it. So now, and I — as I travel in the state of Georgia and around our country, the number of seniors that have benefited, I’ve met — I was in Nevada recently. A grandmother who showed me her receipts. And before we capped the cost of insulin for seniors at $35 a month she was paying hundreds of dollars, up to thousands of dollars a month for her insulin. She’s not doing that any longer.
BASH: So you maintain Bidenomics is a success. / HARRIS: I maintain that when we do the work of bringing down prescription medication for the American people, including capping the cost — of the annual cost of prescription medication for seniors at $2,000; when we do what we did in the first year of being in office to extend the child tax credit so that we cut child poverty in America by over 50%; when we do what we have done to invest in the American people and bringing manufacturing back to the United States so that we created over 800,000 new manufacturing jobs, bringing business back to America; what we have done to improve the supply chain so we’re not relying on foreign governments to supply American families with their basic needs, I’ll say that that’s good work. There’s more to do, but that’s good work.
BASH: I want to get some clarity on where you stand on some key policy issues. Energy is a big one. In — when you were in Congress, you supported the Green New Deal. And in 2019 you said, quote, “There is no question I’m in favor of banning fracking.” Fracking(셰일가스 수압파쇄법), as you know, is a pretty big issue, particularly in your must-win state of Pennsylvania. / HARRIS: Sure. / BASH: Do you still want to ban fracking?
HARRIS: No, and I made that clear on the debate stage in 2020, that I would not ban fracking. As vice president, I did not ban fracking. As president, I will not ban fracking.
BASH: In 2019, I believe in a town hall you said — you were asked, “Would you commit to implementing a federal ban on fracking on your first day in office?” and you said, “There’s no question I’m in favor of banning fracking. So yes.” So it changed in — in that campaign?
HARRIS: In 2020 I made very clear where I stand. We are in 2024, and I have not changed that position, nor will I going forward. I kept my word, and I will keep my word.
BASH: What made you change that position at the time? / HARRIS: Well, let’s be clear. My values have not changed. I believe it is very important that we take seriously what we must do to guard against what is a clear crisis in terms of the climate. And to do that, we can do what we have accomplished thus far. The Inflation Reduction Act, what we have done to invest by my calculation over t— probably a trillion dollars over the next ten years investing in a clean energy economy. What we’ve already done creating over 300,000 new clean energy jobs. That tells me from my experience as vice president we can do it without banning fracking. In fact, Dana — Dana, excuse me — I cast the tie-breaking vote that actually increased leases for fracking as vice president. So I’m very clear about where I stand.
BASH: And was there some policy or scientific data that you saw that you said, “Oh, okay. I get it now”?
HARRIS: What I have seen is that we can — we can grow and we can increase a thriving clean energy economy without banning fracking. / BASH: Okay. Another issue, big one, is immigration. As vice president you were tasked with addressing the root causes of migration in southern countries and — / HARRIS: Northern part of Central America.
BASH: The northern parts of — / HARRIS: Yeah. / BASH: — of — of Central America that deals with, that affects the southern border of the US. During the Biden-Harris administration, there were record numbers of illegal border crossings. Why did the Biden-Harris administration wait three and a half years to implement sweeping asylum restrictions?
HARRIS: Well, first of all, the root causes work that I did as vice president, that I was asked to do by the president has actually resulted in a number of benefits, including historic investments by American businesses in that region. The number of immigrants coming from that region has actually reduced since we’ve began that work. But I will say this: That Joe Biden and I and our administration worked with members of the United States Congress on an immigration issue that is very significant to the American people and to our security, which is the border. And through bipartisan work, including some of the most conservative members of the United States Congress, a bill was crafted which we supported, which I support. And Donald Trump got word of this bill that would’ve — that contributed to securing our border. And because he believes that it would not have helped him politically, he told his folks in Congress, “Don’t put it forward.” He killed the bill: a border security bill that would’ve put 1,500 more agents on the border. And let me tell you something. The Border Patrol endorsed the bill. And I’m sure — (OVERTALK)
HARRIS: — and I’m sure in large part because they knew they were working around the clock and 1,500 more agents would help them. That bill would have allowed us to increase seizures of fentanyl. Ask any community in America that has been devastated by fentanyl what passing that bill would have done to address their concern and a pain they’ve experienced —
BASH: So you would — so you would push that legislation again? I just want to ask ab— / HARRIS: Not only push it. I will make sure that it comes to my desk and I would sign it. / BASH: Just one other question about something that you said in 2019 when you first ran. There was a debate. You raised your hand when asked whether or not the border should be decriminalized. Do you still believe that?
HARRIS: I believe there should be consequence. We have laws that have to be followed and enforced that address and deal with people who cross our border illegally. And there should be consequence. And let’s be clear, in this race, I’m the only person who has prosecuted transnational criminal organizations who traffic in guns, drugs, and human beings. I’m the only person in this race who actually served a border state as attorney general to enforce our laws. And I would enforce our laws as president going forward. I recognize the problem.
BASH: Generally speaking, how should voters look at some of the changes that you’ve made — that you explained some of here — in your policy? Is it because you have more experience now and you’ve learned more about the information? Is it because you’re running for president in a Democratic primary? And should they feel comfortable and confident that what you’re saying now is gonna be your policy moving forward?
HARRIS: Dana, I think the — the — the most important and most significant aspect of my policy perspective and decisions is my values have not changed. You mentioned the Green New Deal. I have always believed and I have worked on it, that the climate crisis is real, that it is an urgent matter to which we should apply metrics that include holding ourselves to deadlines around time. We did that with the Inflation Reduction Act. We have set goals for the United States of America and by extension the globe around when we should meet certain standards for reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, as an example. That value has not changed. My value around what we need to do to secure our border, that value has not changed. I spent two terms as the attorney general of California prosecuting transnational criminal organizations, violations of American laws regarding the passage, illegal passage of guns, drugs, and human beings across our border. My values did not change. So that is the reality of it, and four years of being vice president, I’ll tell you, one of the — the — the aspects to your point is traveling the country extensively. I mean, I’m here in Georgia, I think somebody told me 17 times since I’ve been vice president in Georgia alone. I believe it is important to build consensus, and it is important to — to — to find a common place of understanding of where we can actually solve problems.
BASH: On that note, you had a lot of Republican speakers at the convention. Will you appoint a Republican to your Cabinet? / HARRIS: Yes, I would. / BASH: Any one in mind—
HARRIS: Yes, I would. No, no one in particular in mind. I got — we got 68 days to go with this election, so I’m not puttin’ the cart before the horse. But I would. I think — I think it’s really important. I — I have spent my career inviting diversity of opinion. I think it’s important to have people at the table when some of the most important decisions are being made that have different views, different experiences. And I think it would be to the benefit of the American public to have a member of my Cabinet who is a Republican.
BASH: Speaking of Republicans, I want to ask you about your opponent, Donald Trump. I was a little bit surprised, people might be surprised to hear that you have never interacted with him, met him face to face. That’s gonna change soon, but what I want to ask you about is what he said last month. He suggested that you happened to turn Black recently for political purposes, questioning a core part of your identity. / HARRIS: Yeah. / BASH: Any— / HARRIS: Same old, tired playbook. Next question, please. (LAUGH) / BASH: That’s it? / HARRIS: That’s it.
BASH: OK. Let’s talk about some foreign policy issues that would be on your plate if you become commander in chief. President Biden has tried unsuccessfully to end the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. He’s been doing it for months and months, along with you. Would you do anything differently? For example, would you withhold some US weapons shipments to Israel? That’s what a lot of people on the progressive left want you to do.
HARRIS: Let me be very clear. I’m unequivocal and — and unwavering in my commitment to Israel’s defense and its ability to defend itself. And that’s not gonna change. But let’s take a step back. October 7, 1,200 people are massacred, many young people who are simply attending a musical festival. Women were horribly raped. As I said then, I say today, Israel had a right — has a right to defend itself. We would. And how it does so matters. Far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed. And we have got to get a deal done. We — we were in Doha. We have to get a deal done. This war must end—
BASH: And in the meantime— / HARRIS: And we must get a deal that is about getting the hostages out. I’ve met with the families of the American hostages. Let’s get the hostages out. Let’s get the ceasefire done.
BASH: But no change in policy in terms of arms and — and so forth? / HARRIS: No. I — we have to get a deal done. Dan — Dana, we have to get a deal done. When you look at the significance of this to the families, to the people who are living in that region — it — a deal is not only the right thing to do to end this war but will unlock so much of what must happen next. I remain committed since I’ve been on October 8 to what we must do to work toward a two-state solution where Israel is secure and in equal measure the Paletin — the Palestinians have security and self-determination and — and dignity.
BASH: Governor Walz, the country is just starting to get to know you. I want to ask you a question about how you’ve described your service in the National Guard. / WALZ: Yeah.
BASH: You said that you carried weapons in war, but you have never deployed actually in a war zone. A campaign official said that you misspoke. Did you?
WALZ: Well, first of all, I’m incredibly proud. I’ve done 24 years of wearin’ uniform of this country. Equally proud of my service in a public school classroom, whether it’s Congress or — or the governor. My record speaks for itself, but I think people are coming to get to know me. I — I speak like they do. I speak candidly. I wear my emotions on my sleeves, and I speak especially passionately about — about our children being shot in schools and around — around guns. So I think people know me. They know who I am. They know where — where my heart is, and again, my record has been out there for over 40 years to — to speak for itself.
BASH: And the — the idea that you said that you were in war, did you misspeak, as the campaign has said? / WALZ: Yeah, I said — we were talking about in this case, this was after a school shooting, the ideas of carrying these weapons of war. And my wife the English teacher told me my grammar’s not always correct. But again, if it’s not this, it’s an attack on my children for showing love for me, or it’s an attack on my dog. I’m not gonna do that, and the one thing I’ll never do is I’ll never demean another member’s service in any way. I never have and I never will.
BASH: And just one other question, because, again, this is all new. This was not — however many days ago, this was not on either of your bingo cards, especially yours. You had to clarify that you had said that you and your wife used IVF, but it turned out you used a different kind of fertility in order to have children. And then when you ran for Congress in 2006, your campaign repeatedly made false statements about a 1995 arrest for drunk and reckless driving. What do you say to voters who aren’t sure whether they can take you at your word?
WALZ: Well, I’ve been very public. I think they can see — my students come out — former folks I’ve served with, and they — and they do, they vouch for me. I certainly own my mistakes when I make ‘em. The one thing I’ll tell you is I wished in this country we wouldn’t have to do this. I spoke about our infertility issues ‘cause it’s hell, and families know this. And I — I spoke about the treatments that were available to us that — that had those beautiful children there. That’s quite a contrast in folks that are trying to — to take those rights away from us. And so I — I think people know who I am. They know that record. They’ve seen that I’ve taught thousands of students. I’ve been out there. And I — I won’t apologize for speaking passionately, whether it’s guns in schools or protection of reproductive rights. The contrast could not be clearer between what we’re running against. The vice president’s position on this has been clear. And I think most Americans get it, if you’ve been through that. I don’t think they’re cutting hairs on IVF or IUI. I think what they’re cutting hairs on is an abortion ban and the ability to be able to deny families the chance to have a beautiful child.
BASH: Vice President Harris, you were a very staunch defender of President Biden’s capacity to serve another four years right after the debate. You insisted that President Biden is extraordinarily strong. Given where we are now, do you have any regrets about what you told the American people?
HARRIS: No, not at all. Not at all. I have served with President Biden for almost four years now. And I’ll tell ya it’s one of the greatest honors of my career, truly. He cares so deeply about the American people. He is so smart and — and loyal to the American people. And I have spent hours upon hours with him, be it in the Oval Office or the Situation Room. He has the intelligence, the commitment, and the judgment and disposition that I think the American people rightly deserve in their president. By contrast, the former president has none of that. And so — one, I — I — I am so proud to have served as vice president to Joe Biden. And, two, I am so proud to be running with Tim Walz for president of the United States and to bring America what I believe the American people deserve, which is a new way forward, and turn the page on the last decade of what I believe has been contrary to where the spirit of our country really lies.
BASH: With the last decade, of course, the last three and a half years has been part of your administration.
HARRIS: I’m talking about an era that started about a decade ago where there is some suggestion, warped I believe it to be, that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on you beat down instead of where I believe most Americans are, which is to believe that the true measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up. That’s what’s at stake as much as any other detail that we could discuss in this election.
BASH: Because we haven’t had a chance to — to talk, I’m just curious, staying on President Biden, when he called you and said he was pulling outta the race, what was that like? And did he offer to endorse you right away or did you ask for it? / HARRIS: It was — it was a Sunday, so, here, I’ll — I’ll give you a little too much information. (LAUGHTER)
BASH: Go for it. There’s no such thing, Madam Vice President. HARRIS: My family was staying with us. And — including my baby nieces. And we had just had pancakes and, you know, “Auntie, can I have more bacon?” “Yes, I’ll make you more bacon.” And then we were gonna sit — we were sitting down to — to do a puzzle. (LAUGH) And the phone rang. And it was Joe Biden. And — and he told me what he had decided to do. And I asked him, “Are you sure?” And he said, “Yes.” And — and that’s how I learned about it.
BASH: what about the endorsement? Did you ask for it? / HARRIS: He was very clear that he was gonna support me. / BASH: So when he called to tell you, he said, “I’m pulling outta the race and I’m gonna support you?”
HARRIS: Well, my first thought was not about me to be honest with you. My first thought was about him to be honest. I think history is gonna show a number of things about Joe Biden’s presidency. I think history is gonna show that in so many ways it was transformative, be it on what we have accomplished around finally investing in America’s infrastructure, investing in new economics, in new industries, what we have done to bring our allies back together, and have confidence in who we are as America, and grow that alliance, what we have done to stand true to our principles including the — the — one of the most important international rules and norms, which is the importance of sovereignty and territorial integrity. And I think history is gonna show not only has Joe Biden led an administration that has achieved those extraordinary successes, but the character of the man is one that he has been in his life and career, including as a president, quite selfless and puts the American people first.
BASH: I just have to ask you both about two standout moments, aside of course from the addresses that you both gave, but standout moments that were perhaps unexpected during the convention. You mentioned one of them, governor, a moment that you shared, that the world shared with your son, Gus. You were speaking. The camera caught him so incredibly proud of you, so emotional, saying, “That’s my dad.”
WALZ: Yeah. I — I don’t know as a father I could’ve ever imagined that. I — I’m grateful for so many reasons to be on this ticket. But that moment — to understand what was really important, to — to have my son feel a sense of pride in me, that I was trying to do the right thing. And it was, you know, you try and protect your kids. You know it brings — it brings notoriety in things. But it was just such a visceral, emotional moment that I’m — I’m just — I’m grateful I got to experience it. And I’m — I’m so proud of him. I’m proud of him. I’m proud of Hope. I’m proud of Gwen. She’s a wonderful mother. And these are great kids. And I think the one thing is, talking about the era we’re in, is our politics can be better. It can be different. We can — we can show some of these things. And we can have families involved in this. And I — I hope that there was — I hope people felt that out there. And I hope they hugged their kids a little tighter, because you just never know. And life can be kinda hard.
BASH: And last question, Madam Vice President, the photograph that has gone viral. You were speaking. One of your grand nieces that you were just talking about was watching you accept the nomination. You didn’t explicitly talk about gender or race in your speech. But it obviously means a lot to a lot of people. And that viral picture really says it. What does it mean to you?
HARRIS: You know, I — listen, I am running because I believe that I am the best person to do this job at this moment for all Americans, regardless of race and gender. But I did see that photograph. And I was deeply touched by it. And, you’re right, she’s — it’s the back of her head, and her two little braids, and — and then I’m in the front of the photograph obviously speaking. It’s very humbling. It’s very humbling in many ways.
BASH: Did she talk to you about it afterwards? / HARRIS: Oh, she had a lot to talk (LAUGHTER) about. She had a lot. She listened to everything. And she listens to everything. / BASH: She gave you her hot takes? / HARRIS: Oh, yeah, definitely. Uh-huh. (LAUGH) / BASH: Madam Vice President, Governor Walz, thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. / HARRIS: Okay, thank you. / WALZ: Thanks for having us. / HARRIS: Thank you, Dana. Thank you.
=================Fact Check(CNN)================
Democratic presidential candidate Vice President Kamala Harris and vice presidential candidate Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz sat down with CNN anchor Dana Bash on Thursday for the first formal interview of their campaign. Bash directed most of the questions to Harris. Here is a fact check of some of Harris’ responses, including a misleading statement and an exaggeration.
Harris’ stance on fracking(셰일가스 추출공법, 수압파쇄법)
Bash noted that Harris said, while running in the Democratic presidential primary in 2019, that “there’s no question I’m in favor of banning fracking.” When Bash asked if she still wants to ban fracking, Harris responded: “No, and I made that clear on the debate stage in 2020 – that I would not ban fracking. As vice president, I did not ban fracking. As president, I will not ban fracking.”
When Bash again noted that Harris said in 2019 that she supported a ban on fracking, and asked Harris if she changed her mind during that campaign (which Harris ended in December 2019), Harris said, “In 2020, I made very clear where I stand. We are in 2024 and I’ve not changed that position, nor will I going forward.”
Facts First: This is misleading. Harris did not make her position on fracking clear during her only debate in 2020, the general election’s vice presidential debate against then-Vice President Mike Pence; Harris never explicitly stated a personal position on fracking during that debate. Rather, she said that Joe Biden, the head of the Democratic ticket at the time, would not ban fracking if he was elected president.
Harris said in the 2020 vice presidential debate: “Joe Biden will not end fracking”; “I will repeat, and the American people know, that Joe Biden will not ban fracking.”
It made sense that Harris was addressing Biden’s plans at the time given that the president sets administration policy. But contrary to her claim on Thursday, neither of these 2020 debate comments made clear that she personally held a different view on the subject than she had the year prior.
The child tax credit and poverty
Harris touted the impact of the American Rescue Plan pandemic relief bill Biden signed into law in 2021, which included a temporary enhancement of the child tax credit. She referred to “when we do what we did in the first year of being in office to extend the child tax credit, so that we cut child poverty in America by over 50%.”
Facts First: The word “over,” which Harris said very quietly, makes this claim a slight exaggeration; the American Rescue Plan’s temporary expansion of the child tax credit helped reduce child poverty by 46%, by one key federal measure, between 2020 and 2021. In addition, it’s important to note that this steep improvement only lasted for the one year the temporary enhancement was in effect. The child poverty rate then spiked in 2022, the most recent year for which public data is currently available.
The American Rescue Plan increased the size of the child tax credit to up to $3,600 – from $2,000 – for eligible families. The law also enabled many more low-income parents to claim the credit and distributed half of the credit on a monthly basis.
These changes helped send child poverty (as measured by the Supplemental Poverty Measure) to a record low 5.2% in 2021, a drop of 46% from 2020, when the rate was 9.7% according to the US Census Bureau. But in 2022, child poverty soared to 12.4%, roughly comparable to where it was prior to the pandemic in 2019. That was the largest jump in child poverty since the Supplemental Poverty Measure began. Harris is now calling to restore the $3,600 credit as well as create a new $6,000 credit for newborns.
Clean energy jobs
Touting the Biden-Harris administration’s Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, a major climate law for which Harris cast the tiebreaking vote in the Senate, Harris spoke of “what we’ve already done, creating over 300,000 new clean energy jobs.”
Facts First: This needs context. While it’s clear that a significant number of new clean energy jobs were created as a result of the Inflation Reduction Act, the “300,000” figure includes jobs that companies have promised to create but aren’t finalized. And other counts of new clean energy jobs have come up with smaller figures.
The 300,000 estimate comes from a June tally by communications group Climate Power. It was compiled by adding up the jobs promised by companies in publicly announcing 585 clean energy projects after the Inflation Reduction Act was passed through May 2024, a total of 312,900 announced jobs. Not all of these jobs have already been created. Climate Power’s topline number also doesn’t distinguish between construction jobs building new factories and the long-term jobs at those factories – jobs building batteries, solar panels and electric vehicles, among other things.
In addition, E2, another clean energy group that tracks Inflation Reduction Act-related investments and jobs, has counted over 109,000 new clean energy jobs created or announced from August 2022 to May 2024 – significantly lower than the Climate Power number. A recent report from the US Department of Energy found 142,000 new clean energy jobs were created in 2023.
Different entities use different methodologies when analyzing data, so it is difficult to determine an exact figure. Regardless, there’s no question there’s a huge amount of clean energy investment, and a significant number of new jobs building EVs and renewables like wind and solar are being created by the Inflation Reduction Act. The 2024 Energy Department report showed clean energy jobs made up more than half of the total for new energy sector jobs and grew at a rate twice as large as the overall US economy.
The report also acknowledged how the sudden growth in the clean energy sector from the Inflation Reduction Act has made it difficult to track all the jobs that are being created.